Dr. Gary Aguilar, MD. Coast to Coast AM Radio – Nov. 22-23, 2007. 4 AM EST.
With George Noorey.
George Noorey: Dr. Gary Aguilar. He practices in San Francisco, California, a clinical professor at the University of California, San Francisco, and an expert on all medical aspects of the JFK case, and he has testified before the Assassination Records Review Board concerning the medical records. His analysis of the autopsy evidence is published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Dr. Gary, how are you?
Dr. Gary Aguilar: Thank you very much for having me on. I am very impressed with your knowledge George, you’ve done an incredible job here and I want to thank you for having me on. One small addendum, my biggest review that was published in medical literature, was a long piece published in a somewhat obscure journal called Neurosurgery. I also published a review recently, a 9700 word review of Vincent Bugliosi’s book in an obscure journal called The Federal Lawyer….. I’m one of the few physicians outside the government who is still allowed to see the still restricted autopsy photographs of Jack Kennedy and the X-rays and photographs. So I’ve had an interest since I was a young man, and both you and I are about the same vintage, so this is something that has continued to bother me.
GN: We’d like to…..but I think it is important for people to understand what may have happened on that horrible day. When you look at those autopsy reports and photos, what exactly do you see here?
GA: People who are interested in this subject will have no difficulty finding the images on line, and in fact they are the real images. I got both my copies before I was given permission to go back there, and compare it with the originals. They are not the high quality as the originals, of course, but they are the real deal. The key part of it here is that John Kennedy died principally from a gun shot wound to the head. The question about whether that shot came from behind or the front or both directions, and I tend toward the view that he was probably shot in two directions in the head and that explains the injuries perhaps as well or better than anything else. But there has been a mishandling of the medical evidence literally from the day of the assassination. From the day of the assassination, the doctors at Parkland hospital described wound that were then redescribed, and the autopsy pathologists were forced to write what I think is a somewhat fraudulent, perhaps criminally fraudulent autopsy report. Since that time the autopsy pathologists have lied under oath about the autopsy photographs, and in other ways have been intimidated. Autopsy photographs are missing….. and we have very good reason to suspect, because all the principles involved, all three pathologists, witnesses…., autopsy photographer, and even people who developed the images afterwards, have said they saw images that are no longer in the extant file. So this has been something where Kennedy’s head was quite clearly been blown apart. And there are peculiarities that are very obscure to go into in any detail with an audience, with a general audience that isn’t medically trained, other than to say that there are features that are completely inexplicable. The principle one perhaps, anyone who gets on line and sees the autopsy X-rays, particularly the front to back X-ray, so called AP X ray, a big piece of metal in what looks to be Kennedy’s right eye socket. Well that piece of metal is supposed to be embedded on the outside, the back side of his skull. It’s a 6.5 mm fragment, which is the diameter of the bullet that was supposed to have hit him from Oswald’s rifle, and you can ask as many forensic pathologists you want in the world and you will never have one who will be able to explain to you how the central diameter of a bullet, the nose of which is in front of Kennedy, the tail of which is supposed to be in front of Kennedy if Oswald did it, and somehow a section, a central diameter of the bullet ends up…. on the outside of the skull. Good luck with that one. That’s one of the many mysteries we have to deal with here.
But more importantly, what we see going along, especially in the mainstream media, is a willingness to withhold the truth from the public. Anthony Lewis, on the day the Warren Report was released, wrote in the New York Times, that the Warren Commission had released all the information that it had gathered, whether the information agreed with their conclusions or not. But it didn’t. They didn’t release a lot of it. The JFK Review Board found that material was still being withheld in 1993 when they started to go about their work. So the government and the mainstream media have never told us the truth about that…Now there have been a few cracks….Journalist Jefferson Morley, who got interested in the subject, and he actually published a letter in the New York Times, that is worth reviewing for your audience. I won’t read it in detail, but he signed the letter with one time BBC correspondent Anthony Summers, Norman Mailer, David Talbot,….and listed the number of people who have either privately or publicly suspected there was a conspiracy, and among them – President Johnson, Richard Nixon, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, emphatically him by the way, Jackie Kennedy, William Attwood, J. Edger Hover, Richard Russell, who was a Warren Commission member, Richard Schweiker, Gary Hart, and on and on and on…many other people. This is not some crackpot nonsense. We now have Vincent Bugliosi out here, and again, what you see in Vincent Bugliosi, with the mainstream media, is they assign people who known nothing about the case. ….Vincent Bugliosi’s own book provides… – he’s good at indexing who’s who in the Kennedy case as anything you’ll find. And anybody’s who has written knowledgably about the subject – their name will be in there. If you read …. the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, the New York Times, on the subject of Kennedy, they won’t be. My name’s there. All the people you have on your panel aren’t there. Well my review is now on the Federal Lawyer, it’ll be on the web in the next 24 to 48 hours. It’s 9700 words and it gives multiple examples of his mishandling of evidence. But you won’t hear that from the mainstream media, that continues to tow the official line, as it has on so many other lies, whether it’s the Iraq war, casualty figures in Vietnam, progress in the war, they never really told the truth about a lot of things that go on.
GN: Did they really have to get rid of Kennedy in order to continue their…..
GA: Oh, I think so. While we are getting away from the medical evidence, my expertise, but I think this is a most important question, George. And you need to understand my view is that John Kennedy got radicalized by the Bay of Pigs invasion, when he was promised that America’s hand would not have to show in this, it was such a great idea,…..he was the youngest President in history, all these guys said it was such a great idea, so he went ahead with it. And then when things went badly on the beach and they said we have to have some ships offshore, we’d like to send in some troops, and Kennedy said no, we’re not going to do that. He put his foot down. Well in that moment I think he got radicalized, he had realized....and by the way, there…I wish I could give you a few more,…but off the top of my head I’ll just tell you, and if you ever want….it back I’ll let you know. The CIA knew the date of the invasion had been blown, the CIA had found out that the Russians knew the day we were coming, which means the Cubans knew. The whole plot had been revealed and exposed, and of course it failed.
GN: Oh, my God. It’s important they didn’t stop it.
GA: No, they just expected that Kennedy would roll, as all Presidents would in a situation like that, and do what the military wanted and send in an invasionary force, so Kennedy infuriated them by not doing what they wanted at the Bay of Pigs. Then there was Operation Northwoods, which you may have spoken about, where the Joint Chiefs of Staff planned to commit acts of terrorism against innocent Americans as a pretext for war against Cuba in 1962. Kennedy wouldn’t let them do that. Anyone can get that information by Googling Operation Northwoods. You can see the Joint Chiefs of Staff signatures on the page. So he infuriated them with the Bay of Pigs, and again with Operation Northwoods, in 1962 he was pushing for the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, which was ultimately and eventually signed, and they were furious about that. They wanted to send troops into Laos and he wouldn’t let them do that. Then during the Cuban Missile Crisis, if you read a book The Kennedy Case, Harvard University Press, it’s about the Special Operations Group meetings during the Cuban Missile Crisis in those 13 days, the editors of the book say there were many times, in listening to the tapes, the only person in the room determined not to go to war was Jack Kennedy. He was surrounded by advisors that were all advocating war. He stood against his own advisors, which Presidents just don’t have the courage to do anymore, and haven’t since. And finally on the question of Vietnam and JFK, people said Oliver Stone was a complete crackpot for suggesting that Jack Kennedy would not have prosecuted that war, but its now turned out from classified documents, and you don’t even have to take it from conspiracy theorists anymore, a bunch of historians who agree that that’s true were skeptical of that theory before the declassified documents came out. Howard Jones, who published a book the Death of a Generation, 2003, Oxford University Press, a very prestigious publishing house. In his introduction on page 8, ….when I first read this business that Kennedy wouldn’t prosecute the war I thought it was nuts. And he essentially wrote the book to say that if there was one officer in this country that was determined not to go to war in Vietnam it was Jack Kennedy. So look at what happened. If you look at it in perspective, did they have to get rid of Jack Kennedy?
GN: Oh, yes.
GA: I mean they wouldn’t let them have the Bay of Pigs, wouldn’t let them have Operation Northwoods, wouldn’t let them have a Cuban Missile Crisis attack on Cuba, he pushed for a nuclear test ban treaty….
GN: The federal reserve, we have to bring that up…..
GA: The Federal Reserve, that’s another one, one that knows much less about, than these others, but it’s another example of that. No, I think he had to be removed. And at that moment, people began learning that they serve, for the lack of a better word, Eisenhower’s Military-Industrial complex.
GN: He had to have known Gary, besides the story we just had that he was warned about Chicago and didn’t go there, he had to have known they were all out to get him.
GA: In fact, if you read David Talbot’s new book Brothers, which is a suburb book, beautifully written by the way, he’s just a great writer. It annoys me that he’s such a great writer because I wish I could write as well. But he lays out the fact that both Bobby and Jack, but particularly Jack, you need to call it a premonition, but he understood, and he even advocated his associates see this film Seven Days In May where there’s a plot against the President by the military.
GN: He was intuitive.
GA: You don’t have to be a genius to stand in a room with the most powerful people in the world during the Cuban Missile Crisis and you’re standing alone against them, to realize that you’re not making powerful friends by doing that. And here’s the irony of the thing. I’d like to say I’m delighted to be able to say this on coast to coast radio because its well known and published in all sorts of university books, but you talk to…one in a hundred people know its true. If Kennedy had done what the military wanted during the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was to bomb the missile sites that were still under construction and to invade the island, what we didn’t know then that we now know, the Cubans had nukes on the beaches, tactical nuclear missiles that had a range of about 200 miles, or so,….
GN: Armed and ready to go.
GA: Armed and ready to go. If we had sent in a flotilla to take over the island, the Russians had….idiotically, given the Cubans independent authorization to fire in the event of an attack. They would have nuked our ships; the Americans would have seen the Russians hand in this and no doubt had retaliated with a nuclear strike on Russia…..
GN: Florida and part of the south would have been gone.
GA: Part of the south might very well have been gone. They would have taken out Russia and Russia would have said that this nuclear exchange business is a game that two can play, and we wouldn’t be having this conversation today. It would be an entirely different world if Kennedy had not been President of the United States. Now mind you, I grew up in Los Angeles, my dad worked at Lockheed, my parents ran John Birch Society chapters when I was growing up. I was a Young American for Freedom member, a Young Republican, I campaigned…….
GN: I haven’t heard the John Birch Society mentioned in a hundred years.
GA: It’s still around. My mother still likes it. It’s unbelievable.
GN: Now they’re called right wingers, right?
GA: It’s insane. Now when I reflect back on it, the thing that opened my eyes was reading the Pentagon Papers, and Dan Ellsberg is a hero. I wish there were a few more like him in the world. But also you have to realize that, I thought the guys you could trust were not those long haired, commie pinkos, you know that were protesting when I was in college. The people you could trust were those guys with the clear eyes, short hair and uniforms and the ROTC….they were the people you could trust. Then I read the Pentagon Papers and learned that protested, the commie pinko, dope smokers, and….the guys who you should not. The individual soldiers were heroes. In this movie Lions for Lams, they quote Churchill I think, they say that lions go into battle for the lams…. in the field, and as we see in Iraq today, they are the real heroes and they are going into battle on behalf of men who are lams, who really don’t represent the personal the sort of courage and personal dedication….I don’t blame the individual solders or the guys behind the ROTC tables, but the seat of the military, the manipulation of the government towards military ends is a national tragedy here.
GN: And you know what’s happening now as you see world events and that is they are all ganging up to destroy whatever we thought was our form of democracy and freedom, by chopping up the dollar, by doing what they are doing, and you can see it unfold now, it’s almost as if the plan was concocted forty four years ago.
GA: It’s absolutely frightening. It’s been as you say, marching in an unavoidable march down this terrible path we are on. We used to have the strongest currency in the world, now we’re the laughing stock of the world. We used to be the world’s banker, and now we’re the world’s biggest debtor.
GN: It’s like it all happened at once. It’s been ongoing but the publicity of it and the effect is like the bottom fell out. You know what it’s like? You’re a doctor, you’ll understand this. A guy goes along for his whole life, feeling good, having a good time, exercising, and wakes up one morning and has a heart attack. It’s all over for him. It’s all over, and he says to himself, how the heck did this happen? It was building up. And that is what is happening to us.
GA: We’ve been missing the signs here. I haven’t been missing them. In fact, studying the Kennedy case is one thing which has been very helpful for me to immediately start recognizing when I’m getting disinformation from the government in the mainstream media. I was howling about, because I was reading the international press on line, I was howling about the huge exaggerations about the imminence of this great threat we face from Iraq, when Judith Miller’s stories were gracing the front pages of the New York Times telling us we had to go to war to fend off this terrible human threat, and I felt, wait a minute. I’ve already been through one war like this where we had an imminent threat in the Gulf of Tonkin that never really existed. Even many of my medical colleagues, many of whom tend to be quite conservative, as you probably know, said Oh, no, no, you can trust them this time, and they’re telling the truth this time. Now they’re all shame faced and embarrassed, but in the meantime….You can find this easily by Googling the words: rich-poor-gap-widens. The United States used to be a country where you could start off poor and rise to prosperity easier than anyplace else in the world. Well guess what folks? According to the Wall Street Journal, which is where you will find that article, the United States…is now tied for dead last in your chances to rise to prosperity from poverty. This isn’t some commie leftist nut cases saying this….this is the World Street Journal saying this. We’ve lost a huge thing. And I’m a guy who grew up in a family of twelve, conservative, Republican parents, but poor as church mice, with brothers and sisters frequently out of work, with waves of hiring and firings depending on the defense budget.
GN: Do you know why they can’t tell us what happened back there in 1963. They can’t tell us because they haven’t stopped yet. If it was a one time event, and he got assassinated and they know who did it, they would have said this. They can’t say it because it’s still going on.
GA: There continues to be a terrible deception going on. And the mainstream media has now been so organized with so few outlets in the country that they can keep on message, and keep manipulating the public and manipulating and manufacturing consent….
GN: I just don’t think they understand here…I know a lot of people in the media and most of them aren’t told what to do by other groups or agencies. They are just so involved in this competition to get the Anna Nicole story on the air that they just don’t….
GA: ….You want to go with the sensational thing, which is how Rupert Murdoch took the venerable London Times and made it, tabloid zed it.
GN: You got one guy out there – Lou Dobbs with CNN, who sticks his neck out. Other than that there’s not much out there.
GA: Well, there’s a guy, I’m trying to think of his name, because I watch almost no TV, commentator on MSNBC,…..
GN: That’s Keith Olbermann…..
GA: I’ve seen a couple of things he’s done and thought it was spectacular. And Paul Krugman of the New York Times and Frank Rich of the New York Times,….
GN: But how many people read that? It’s become a television world and a radio world to some extent. Gary, we’ve go to run, but thank you for getting us to look at the web site and some of those photos, I just did.
GA: I recommend that people who read Vincent Bugliosi’s book go to a web site called www.reclaiming.org, not com., .org, where there’s essays I’ve written and other critics have written that will lay out the facts because Bugliosi can’t be trusted.
GN: Okay, we’ve got to run; we’ve got one more guest to go.
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